I can’t stand overhearing people on their cell phones. I can’t stand overhearing people having conversation. It’s not so much that I mind the invasion or the fact that people usually talk about private (rather private, sometimes too private) concerns in public, but rather the fact that all I hear is: “So yeah I was like you know and so I like you know told him yeah so and I was like so yeah like you know and he was like yeah so like yeah you know what I’m saying?”
I have no idea what language this is. This language seems to have its own rules and method of meaning, but it’s not one I want to learn or be around. It makes me angry.
What makes me more angry is hearing my neighbor’s rather lame attempts to play guitar when I’m trying to work in my office. I just blast my Glenn Gould. I figure that hearing real music might help him play real music. My other neighbor, on the other hand, is a professional pianist; I don’t mind hearing him at all. I welcome it.
I suppose I wouldn’t mind overhearing conversation if it were real conversation.
In so many classrooms, so many students raise their seemingly enthusiastic hands to say, “Uh, miss, do you like really want like our thesis to like you know be like that because in my like other class you know with my other professor you know like that would be like my professor like you know wanted the thesis to like be to the point like you know and that thesis is like you know what I’m saying?”
No, I have no idea what you’re saying.
Instead of interpreting this non-language, we should ask the student to clarify and speak intelligently.
My ancient Greek professor banned the expression “okay” in class. Expressions I would ban: so like yeah, you know, like, so like, yeah, but miss (why “miss” and not “Professor so-and-so?”), you know what I’m saying, and I was like so like.
I think you get my point.
Teaching effective oral communication should start at the most basic level. Don’t encourage students because they are asking questions; encourage them to ask intelligent questions intelligently. Don’t interpret them; force them to clarify.
This is my pet peeve, too, and I agree with you 100% about how annoying it is to hear this non-language spoken. If you have had any success in your efforts to get students to drop these words and phrases from their speech, I would love to hear about it. Even my good friends do this (pepper every sentence with likes and you knows); I feel helpless about changing the ingrained speech patterns of students I only see briefly.
Ok, here’s like some devil’s advocate stuff, you know what I am saying?: I can’t help but read your post, Jenny, as a lament over the degradation of the English language at the hands of an undereducated youth. Is this really a non-language or a ubiquitous youth dialect linked to specific literacies? What happened to students’ right to their own language? I’m overstating the case, but why the heck not?
Well, one reason I see as 'why the heck not' for our students at Baruch is that they are unable to switch dialects successfully in the business world and come across sounding inappropriate in business situations that affect their future. I don't think Jenny is just talking about fast, casual conversations, one friend to another (in which case I myself use a bit of 'like' and 'you know'). Being unable to string together a proper sentence in the classroom — or after graduation, in a job interview — is a pretty big handicap. And some young women, who add to that problem another one of question-like inflections at the end of every sentence, just don't sound as authoritative as they otherwise could.
Ok, fine. So what do we do about it, pedagogically speaking?
I hope others have ideas to share on this. It's my first semester videotaping the BPL students, but it seems as though getting a student to really hear herself for the first time might make a start. I guess it's not feasible to correct them one at a time a thousand times a day, the way my mother did with me when I was a teenager
Imagine how hard it is to learn English form your peers, if you keep hearing ( and reapeating) those phrases, wanting to sound like a native! So this problem crosses over to the ESL area.
An interesting debate you have provoked Jenny! I appreciated Mikhail's link to the NCTE's 2003 resolution reaffirming the 1974 position statement, "Students' Right To Their Own Language." It seems that their emphasis is on respecting ethnic and cultural dialects, but I suppose if we think of language's malleability on a continuum, it might range from the static notion of Standardized English, to a moderate respect for ethnic/cultural dialects' influence on English, to a radical openness to urban English/Valley Girl English/and any other vernacular English. In particular, I appreciated this quote from the article Mikhail referenced:
We have also taught, many of us, as though the "English of educated speakers," the language used by those in power in the community, had an inherent advantage over other dialects as a means of expressing thought or emotion, conveying information, or analyzing concepts.
I appreciated this because it affirms that "like, you know, whatever, uh huh, okay" DOES communicate. Often particularly through affective means. If anyone of us, as faculty or fellows, can interpret one of those phrases, then communication is occurring. However, I too wince at extended sentences held together by like and you know. And Wendy seems to have a point, that code-switching is key! What help to students are we, if once in out in the 'real world' (not, like, you know that Real World) their communication is not considered effective. And of course, pity the international student who has learned text-book English, now trying to catch up to speed in conversational English! But then, I never did master "street-French," either!
I think the point could be, that students need to be able to first, figure out what works in the range of situations they encounter, and then second, make sure they can develop and master that necessary skill. This came up several times at last years Symposium, and I suppose it's the basic premise of a Liberal Arts education. Perhaps we need to teach students to learn how to learn, because what we need to know, and what is considered worthwhile knowledge, changes. (She said questioningly, as her voice swung upward at the end of the sentence.)
I am following Agnieszka on the ESL issue. It is both my experience and my ESL students/friends' experience that we don't have that much 'control' of language as far as an appropriate 'register' of language use is concerned. So people who (rather proudly) claim to know 'real' English because they picked it up 'on the street' didn't really pick up much other than "so you know, yeah, like, yeah, you know what I'm sayin'?" Same thing goes for swearing; while native speakers can 'not swear' when they shouldn't, ESL people have less of that control.
Speaking of pedagogy, in my experience, it definitely helps to draw their attention to different 'registers' of language that they have to be aware of when they speak or write; you can't speak or write in the classroom in the same way as you do with your friends. We will still overhear stuff on the street, but that's like, you know?
Great, relevant post. I find this happens all the time in class. Usually the problem with many of my students seems to be pronouns with mystery antecedents. So I very often end up saying, “Hold on, who are ‘they’ and ‘them’ and ‘it’ you’re talking about? Start again with nouns and tell me what you want to say.” Students do get it, despite the fact that recidivism rates are rather high. I think it’s important to do this or something similar, because often behind careless word choice lies an uncertain or muddy idea — cleaning up the speech can help clean up the thought. (It’s a natural failure by the way, I think; it’s the reason all my first drafts of dissertation chapters are nauseatingly full of passive voice: I have no idea what I’m talking about.)
I feel the need to weigh in on this discussion as well. There's no question in my mind the use of non words such as "um", "uh", "like", "you know", "whatever" distract the communication of the message between the sender and the receiver. It's like taking a detour when moving from point A to point B. It gets you off track and, along the way, you may very well lose interest. Particularly in a world where the media delivers news of great importance in rapidly-delivered sound bites, today's listeners simply aren't interested in words that don't advance the conversation. In the business world, this 'non language' conveys a lack of confidence. I believe the same holds true for 'non-confident' phrases such as "I'll try", "if I get a chance", "hopefully", "if I can", etc. Empty words and empty phrases take conversation off course. Build awareness around language and we can build confidence at the same time!
Found this in today's NYTimes
"She was using the word ‘like’ all the time. She sounded like a Valley Girl,” said the architect, Andrew, who declined to give his last name because what he did next was illegal."