Comments on: American and World English, or Redux of a Redux http://cac.ophony.org/2009/11/12/american-and-world-english-or-redux-of-a-redux/ Wed, 08 Feb 2012 11:00:19 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Szidonia http://cac.ophony.org/2009/11/12/american-and-world-english-or-redux-of-a-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-39635 Szidonia Fri, 13 Nov 2009 17:19:35 +0000 http://cac.ophony.org/?p=2791#comment-39635 Absolutely! True that we need to take linguistic diversity within the US into consideration. My point, however, is more about the premise we start with: instead of looking at English as the current lingua franca of the world, we come from the direction of American English, expecting, like the faculty in this case did, that students acquiring an education within the US speak "correct," hence standard American English. A similar tendency I find watching news broadcast by American media: there is a narrowness of focus, not to say provincialism, that often leaves out everything that is not internal affair or closely related to US interests. So we end up with American students chronically unwilling to learn a second language because they "have English," after all. I know, it is always a question of social class and background as well, not to mention money, but still. All the tips of my imaginary hats to Wendy for learning Mandarin! She is/was the American student I cannot account for! :) P.S. As far as AAVE goes, I think it would be beneficial for the student to understand, again, the idea of sociolinguistic context, especially since not doing so might indeed hurt her job potential. AAVE is perfectly appropriate in one particular context, while standard American fits another one. There is nothing racist about making this distinction, I think. The same goes for any dialect or language variation, be that Southern American English or Pittsburghese, for example (I obviously spent some time in the Pitt and had fun talking to the 'yintz ;). Absolutely! True that we need to take linguistic diversity within the US into consideration.

My point, however, is more about the premise we start with: instead of looking at English as the current lingua franca of the world, we come from the direction of American English, expecting, like the faculty in this case did, that students acquiring an education within the US speak “correct,” hence standard American English.
A similar tendency I find watching news broadcast by American media: there is a narrowness of focus, not to say provincialism, that often leaves out everything that is not internal affair or closely related to US interests.

So we end up with American students chronically unwilling to learn a second language because they “have English,” after all. I know, it is always a question of social class and background as well, not to mention money, but still.

All the tips of my imaginary hats to Wendy for learning Mandarin! She is/was the American student I cannot account for! :)

P.S. As far as AAVE goes, I think it would be beneficial for the student to understand, again, the idea of sociolinguistic context, especially since not doing so might indeed hurt her job potential. AAVE is perfectly appropriate in one particular context, while standard American fits another one. There is nothing racist about making this distinction, I think. The same goes for any dialect or language variation, be that Southern American English or Pittsburghese, for example (I obviously spent some time in the Pitt and had fun talking to the ‘yintz ;) .

]]> By: Wendy http://cac.ophony.org/2009/11/12/american-and-world-english-or-redux-of-a-redux/comment-page-1/#comment-39627 Wendy Thu, 12 Nov 2009 23:34:41 +0000 http://cac.ophony.org/?p=2791#comment-39627 I think any discussion about this issue is complicated by America’s own internal history, of types of American English in opposition, such as African American Vernacular English (AAVE) versus standard American English. When a professor complains repeatedly about ‘slang’ (I was in that meeting, too), that suggests to me that the problem is with issues of American dialect, rather than the accented English spoken by a non-native speaker, or by someone from a different English-speaking country. [Cool graphic here, by the way – I don’t recognize all the flags, but I got the message.] I was recently working with a group of students, mostly ESL students who spoke heavily accented English, plus one native New Yorker, preparing them for a rather formal oral presentation. I corrected the ESL students’ pronunciations of many words. I worry they will graduate without knowing the correct way to say standard business words, and it will hurt their job chances. [Since all the students I work with are business majors in their final semester, I think this is a valid concern.] On the other hand, I did not correct the student who was born here, who happened to be African American, when he pronounced ask as aks. I know that this pronunciation is not wrong in AAVE, so I think I was wary of appearing racist by telling him to pronounce it ‘the right way’ -- even though I think using vernacular in a job interview could hurt his chances, too. Suzanne just circulated again some info on ESL resources on campus, and I want to share these with a lot of my students. The problem they face is not just about having an accent, but with grammar issues and with making themselves understood. And I have an idea what it is like to be on the other side. Even though I studied Mandarin Chinese, I find I am usually uncomfortable with speaking it, because I know my Chinese is not very good. I worry that making the same kinds of grammar errors that an uneducated adult or a child might make will make me sound 'dumb.' I think any discussion about this issue is complicated by America’s own internal history, of types of American English in opposition, such as African American Vernacular English (AAVE) versus standard American English. When a professor complains repeatedly about ‘slang’ (I was in that meeting, too), that suggests to me that the problem is with issues of American dialect, rather than the accented English spoken by a non-native speaker, or by someone from a different English-speaking country. [Cool graphic here, by the way – I don’t recognize all the flags, but I got the message.]

I was recently working with a group of students, mostly ESL students who spoke heavily accented English, plus one native New Yorker, preparing them for a rather formal oral presentation. I corrected the ESL students’ pronunciations of many words. I worry they will graduate without knowing the correct way to say standard business words, and it will hurt their job chances. [Since all the students I work with are business majors in their final semester, I think this is a valid concern.] On the other hand, I did not correct the student who was born here, who happened to be African American, when he pronounced ask as aks. I know that this pronunciation is not wrong in AAVE, so I think I was wary of appearing racist by telling him to pronounce it ‘the right way’ — even though I think using vernacular in a job interview could hurt his chances, too.

Suzanne just circulated again some info on ESL resources on campus, and I want to share these with a lot of my students. The problem they face is not just about having an accent, but with grammar issues and with making themselves understood. And I have an idea what it is like to be on the other side. Even though I studied Mandarin Chinese, I find I am usually uncomfortable with speaking it, because I know my Chinese is not very good. I worry that making the same kinds of grammar errors that an uneducated adult or a child might make will make me sound ‘dumb.’

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